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	<title>Comments on: The Feds successfully bribe tribes to back off Columbia river complaints</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.landusewatch.com/2008/04/08/the-feds-successfully-bribe-tribes-to-back-off-columbia-river-complaints/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.landusewatch.com/2008/04/08/the-feds-successfully-bribe-tribes-to-back-off-columbia-river-complaints/</link>
	<description>News  and commentary on land (ab)use ...</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.landusewatch.com/2008/04/08/the-feds-successfully-bribe-tribes-to-back-off-columbia-river-complaints/#comment-38171</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks very much for the comment Gary... For the way of record, I note from your email address that you are connected with one of the tribes.

Thanks for the pointer to the Web site, which indeed has great details on the many outstanding habitat projects and other work that this money will do.  To the extent that that work will be done, that's good news.  And I was indeed wrong in my initial characterizations of the projects that this money will buy.

In terms of defining their actions as "altruism", as you do, it is worth noting that this deal seems to be universally criticized by environmental groups.  If this deal is so good for the salmon, one would expect the environmental NGOs to be on the side of the tribes on this one.  But they aren't.

I suggest that the differences in opinion come down to the fact that that $900 million is benefiting the tribes in more ways than just the possible increase of salmon, lamprey, etc.  Indeed, from my understanding, some of the money will preferentially favor tribal scientists and tribal activities.  As such, these portions of the monies will indirectly flow into tribal coffers or to individuals within the tribes.  While there isn't anything wrong with this, it suggests to me at least that the indirect monetary benefits to the tribes do play a role.

Beyond that, I don't necessarily think that the tribes did something bad.  A billion dollars is a lot of money.  And the government was smart in its strategy to divide and conquer by offering a large sum to a faction so that they can avoid paying even a larger sum down the line (dam breaching).

(There is precedent for  this type of divide and conquer tactic, of course.  The Forest and Fish Agreement in Washington State.  The FFA was once heralded as a huge step forward for habitat protection on private timberlands, and there were some gains but a whole lot of back steps too.  They bought off many of the Tribes with money for monitoring and habitat restoration.)

While this deal will doubtlessly offer more employment and other economic opportunities to the tribes, it seems pretty shortsighted.

I suppose in the future all salmon might be reared in the types of hatcheries you describe -- and this money will go a long way, presumably, to advance HUMAN propagation of salmon.  And I see lots of money going to "sea lion harrassment".  You end up with salmon that seem to rely on humans for every step of the journey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for the comment Gary&#8230; For the way of record, I note from your email address that you are connected with one of the tribes.</p>
<p>Thanks for the pointer to the Web site, which indeed has great details on the many outstanding habitat projects and other work that this money will do.  To the extent that that work will be done, that&#8217;s good news.  And I was indeed wrong in my initial characterizations of the projects that this money will buy.</p>
<p>In terms of defining their actions as &#8220;altruism&#8221;, as you do, it is worth noting that this deal seems to be universally criticized by environmental groups.  If this deal is so good for the salmon, one would expect the environmental NGOs to be on the side of the tribes on this one.  But they aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I suggest that the differences in opinion come down to the fact that that $900 million is benefiting the tribes in more ways than just the possible increase of salmon, lamprey, etc.  Indeed, from my understanding, some of the money will preferentially favor tribal scientists and tribal activities.  As such, these portions of the monies will indirectly flow into tribal coffers or to individuals within the tribes.  While there isn&#8217;t anything wrong with this, it suggests to me at least that the indirect monetary benefits to the tribes do play a role.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I don&#8217;t necessarily think that the tribes did something bad.  A billion dollars is a lot of money.  And the government was smart in its strategy to divide and conquer by offering a large sum to a faction so that they can avoid paying even a larger sum down the line (dam breaching).</p>
<p>(There is precedent for  this type of divide and conquer tactic, of course.  The Forest and Fish Agreement in Washington State.  The FFA was once heralded as a huge step forward for habitat protection on private timberlands, and there were some gains but a whole lot of back steps too.  They bought off many of the Tribes with money for monitoring and habitat restoration.)</p>
<p>While this deal will doubtlessly offer more employment and other economic opportunities to the tribes, it seems pretty shortsighted.</p>
<p>I suppose in the future all salmon might be reared in the types of hatcheries you describe &#8212; and this money will go a long way, presumably, to advance HUMAN propagation of salmon.  And I see lots of money going to &#8220;sea lion harrassment&#8221;.  You end up with salmon that seem to rely on humans for every step of the journey.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.landusewatch.com/2008/04/08/the-feds-successfully-bribe-tribes-to-back-off-columbia-river-complaints/#comment-38156</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landusewatch.com/2008/04/08/the-feds-successfully-bribe-tribes-to-back-off-columbia-river-complaints/#comment-38156</guid>
		<description>$900 million IS a lot of money, but the charge that how it will be used being a bit amorphous is completely off the mark. If you look at the actual Memorandum of Agreement, which is available on salmonrecovery.gov, one of the appendices is a project-by-project breakdown of where each and every dollar would be spent and on what.

And if you took the time to learn how the tribes use hatcheries, perhaps you would see that they don't operate them like the states or feds do. In fact, there's an article about how they operate their hatcheries &lt;a href="http://www.critfc.org/hatchery" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. In most of those cases, they only spawn wild fish and outplant them to streams to imprint. The only thing that differentiates them from their wild cousins is that they spent the first months of their lives in a hatchery--one that mimics a cobbled stream and prepares them for life in actual waterways.

Lastly, you have an interesting definition of greed. Getting a settlement destined to be used on behalf of another (and in this case another SPECIES, even) is called altruism. And the tribes would call it duty to the most important animal in their culture. To imply that the tribes should just continue to sit in courtrooms with the hope that someday the dams would be breached, all the while salmon, sturgeon, and lamprey numbers continued to decline to oblivion hardly seems like what is in the best interest of the salmon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$900 million IS a lot of money, but the charge that how it will be used being a bit amorphous is completely off the mark. If you look at the actual Memorandum of Agreement, which is available on salmonrecovery.gov, one of the appendices is a project-by-project breakdown of where each and every dollar would be spent and on what.</p>
<p>And if you took the time to learn how the tribes use hatcheries, perhaps you would see that they don&#8217;t operate them like the states or feds do. In fact, there&#8217;s an article about how they operate their hatcheries <a href="http://www.critfc.org/hatchery" rel="nofollow">here</a>. In most of those cases, they only spawn wild fish and outplant them to streams to imprint. The only thing that differentiates them from their wild cousins is that they spent the first months of their lives in a hatchery&#8211;one that mimics a cobbled stream and prepares them for life in actual waterways.</p>
<p>Lastly, you have an interesting definition of greed. Getting a settlement destined to be used on behalf of another (and in this case another SPECIES, even) is called altruism. And the tribes would call it duty to the most important animal in their culture. To imply that the tribes should just continue to sit in courtrooms with the hope that someday the dams would be breached, all the while salmon, sturgeon, and lamprey numbers continued to decline to oblivion hardly seems like what is in the best interest of the salmon.</p>
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